Lately, Big Bang Theory actress, neuroscientist, and outspoken Orthodox Jew Mayim Bialik has been catching some heat for how she chooses to dress on the Red Carpet—not because she’s wearing too little, but because she’s wearing more than the norm. Bialik follows tznius, the Jewish code of modesty, which at its most basic requires women to have collarbone, elbows, and knees covered in public, and some have equated her choice as putting down women who don’t dress like her—a charge she has vigorously and eloquently refuted on her blog.
Although it is little talked-about, the virtue of modesty is just as crucial for Catholic men and women. And for Catholic women, especially those like myself who consider themselves feminists, the conversation about modesty can be just as complicated as it has been for Mayim Bialik, with non-Catholic feminists crying “foul” and fellow Catholics justifying modesty with problematic and simply untrue catchphrases. Here are 12 things from both camps that invariably make our eyes roll.
From Fellow “Feminists”…
1. “You’re slut-shaming”
Ok, I freely admit that lots of people throw other women under the bus in the justification of modesty, and I’ll address that in a minute. But what other women do or do not wear has literally nothing to do with how I myself choose to dress. Do I dress different than lots of other young women my age? Yeah, sure. Is that a tacit condemnation of lots of other young women my age? Not even close. It’s really none of my business what other women, especially non-Christian women, wear and why. We may dress differently, but we’re all sinners, and all life is sacred no matter what we’re wearing sooo. I’m not going to violate interior modesty by being all judgy about a complete stranger’s crop top.
2. “Dressing modestly is participating in oppression.”
This is by far my favorite, and by “favorite” I mean “it makes me wish I had a pet dragon just so I could feed you to it.” Not only because it completely undermines the autonomy and equality that feminism purports to defend, but it usually gets leveled by condescending, privileged, self-important Western “feminists” (Hilary Clinton is a good example of one) at supposed poor, unenlightened Middle Eastern or African women of all religious designations. It’s the worst parts of colonialism dressed up in Jimmy Choos, clutching a cosmo. No doubt, forcing women to dress a certain way is oppressive. Killing or arresting women for how they choose to dress is oppressive. You know what’s also oppressive? Belittling a woman’s right and ability to choose how she dresses in the name of “enlightening” or “liberating” her.
3. If you loved your body, you wouldn’t cover it up.”
Um, excuse me? Since when was it okay for anyone to presume upon my self-image? You do not get to tell me how to feel about myself. Ever. This is exactly the same thing we criticize our sexualized and misogynist culture for doing to us, and hearing it come out of a supposed “feminist”‘s mouth is almost more hurtful.
4. “Stop trying to shove your religion down everyone’s throat.”
I…what…seriously? Do you have the restless spirit of a high school troll on the Myspace religion forum circa 2004 living inside of you? Because you might want to get that looked at. I am not shoving anything down anyone’s throat. I am peacefully practicing my religion, minding my own business. If I suddenly go berserk and start screaming at the girl next to me in the grocery line for showing too much ankle, then maybe you’ll have a valid point.
5. “It’s 2016. You don’t have to dress like that now.”
I…what? Is it 2016? I could have sworn I was just in Victorian England, but I must have slipped into the time vortex. You can clearly see how quaint and old-fashioned I am from my Timberlands and undercut and black lipstick. Because I’m, y’know, obviously hopelessly old fashioned. And quaint. But this policing of my personal appearance makes me feel right at home, I appreciate it.
6. “You’re just a religious fanatic and not a true feminist.”
That’s cute. You know what religious fanaticism actually looks like? Women under ISIS rule being arrested and even killed for their veils being too sheer. Meanwhile I’m not demanding anyone dress like me. That’s kind of the whole point of modesty—taming your own pride and focus on self. Also, spoilers personal piety and feminism are not mutually exclusive.
From fellow Christians and supporters of modesty…
7. “Modest is hottest”
Due to its catchiness and flippancy this saying is a really popular expression of a preference for modesty. But guess what? It also controverts the entire concept of modesty and is just as objectifying as saying women in general look “hot” in skimpy clothing. Embracing modesty is not about looking “hottest.” It’s not about looking attractive for anyone else. If you prefer women who dress modestly, that’s great. But don’t make the mistake of objectifying them for their modesty, because that kind of defeats the whole purpose.
8. “Leave something to the imagination!”
I think this particular one gets said without a lot of forethought, but because my husband was an English major, and I was a religion/philosophy major, I tend to like to investigate the meanings of things and the meaning of this phrase is kind of icky when you think about it. It implies that a person covers up in order to be a sort of mysterious brand of sexy, enticing others to imagine what’s underneath all those clothes. It demands women be the subject of sexual imaginings, just like the wider culture does. Which, again, is not the point of dressing modestly. I don’t want to be the subject of some rando’s imagination, thanks.
9. “Modest women actually have respect for themselves.”
For a person who belongs to a religion that declares emphatically that all life is sacred, and as a feminist, this one makes me feel especially icky. Implying that someone’s self-worth or respect is tied up in the clothes they put on their body is really unfair because we have literally no idea why someone chooses to wear what they wear. A person is a person whether they are wearing a maxi skirt or a mini dress, period, and they deserve to be treated with love, mercy, and dignity.
10. “Women should dress modestly so men aren’t tempted.”
Granted, as Christians, we are called to help each other out and support one another. No arguments there. Men and women who struggle with lust and sins of the flesh deserve our prayers, support, and the mercy of the Church.
But the idea that women are responsible for the custody of men’s eyes and for whether or not they have impure thoughts is a reeeeal slippery slope down into “she was asking for it.” Jesus said in Matthew 5:28 that “everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart,” not “everyone who looks at a woman with lust is pretty much off the hook because I mean come on that skirt is barely covering her butt.” When Adam tried to blame Eve for giving him the fruit from the forbidden tree, God was having none of it. If my three years in the Orthodox Church taught me nothing else, it’s that in the end, everyone is responsible for their own sin before God, period. The rise or fall of your soul is up to you and your cooperation with God’s grace. Look upon yourself as the first among sinners, and ignore the souls (and clothing choices!) of everyone else. No. Excuses. Ever.
This line of thinking, well-intentioned as it may be, can also make life and legal proceedings hell for female victims of rape and sexual assault. Women often get blamed both in court and in the wider culture for being attacked because their attire may have incited their attacker or attackers, but I don’t ever recall a case in which a thief was given leniency and homeowners dragged through the mud for tempting the accused because they left their door unlocked. There is a popular Tumblr blog that exists in which women submit pictures of themselves wearing what they wore when they were raped or assaulted, to dispel the myth that women are responsible for the management of men’s sexual behavior. For every girl in a “skimpy” outfit, there are ten in sweatpants and sweatshirts, or plain jeans and t shirts. There was even a girl who had a job as a re-enactor who was wearing a historically accurate Puritan costume. Precisely what more could these women have done to “help” the men around them not be “tempted”?
The point is, dressing modestly has everything to do with the ascetic effort of the person embracing it, and zero to do with the state of anyone else’s soul or mental state.
11. “I’m not like other girls with their crop tops and booty shorts.”
If dressing modestly causes you to compare yourself to others, tear others down, and somehow regard yourself as “special” or “better” than “those other girls” then you may as well walk around nekkid for all the spiritual good it does you.
12. “I don’t need to dress slutty, I have a brain.”
Congratulations for discovering the mysterious correlation between women’s intelligence and clothing choices! Bonus points for inflating your own ego at the expense of belittling other women. You little scientific genius special snowflake, you. The world practically owes you a Nobel Prize.
You obviously are quite young, so I assume that 10 years from now you may blanche at the assumptions you make in narrowly projecting what people intend by the ideas they advance. There are simply too many errors here to write about all of them, lest my full commentary exceed your post in length by double or triple.
Because my response to #10 threatens to do so right out of the gate – because I could too easily editorialize at length on the intrinsic flaws in your comments on it – I will therefore constrain my remarks to it alone and begin by providing you a list of 18 bible verses about causing others to stumble:
Malachi 2:8
“But as for you, you have turned aside from the way; you have caused many to stumble by the instruction; you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,” says the LORD of hosts.
Proverbs 4:16
For they cannot sleep unless they do evil; And they are robbed of sleep unless they make someone stumble.
Psalm 140:4
Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; Preserve me from violent men Who have purposed to trip up my feet.
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:30
If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 18:9
If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Mark 9:47
If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:45
If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Matthew 16:23
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”
Matthew 18:7
Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
Matthew 18:6
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mark 9:42
Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.
Luke 17:2
It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble.
Romans 14:20
Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
Romans 14:21
It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness
To suggest that some say “women are responsible for the custody of men’s eyes” is a false understanding of what actually is being said (another illustration of the essential corruption at the heart of all forms of feminism, even the Catholic variety). We are NOT merely called to help each other out and support one another; that is the least of our obligation. Let’s do a thought experiment:
If a well-dressed man strolls down the street in a very seedy, crime-ridden neighborhood in broad daylight while counting out a huge wad of $100 bills in his hands, we can all agree he has a right to do just that. However, he is also creating for many others a primary and significant occasion of sin which we are prohibited under pain of sin upon our own souls to do.
Furthermore, I’d like to note that such a fool is “asking for it” exactly no more or no less than a woman walking down the same street exposing far more of herself than is prudent.
In each case any criminal wrongdoing in response to the temptation rests on the shoulders of the perp, but let’s not kid ourselves. The man flashing his roll of bills carries as much burden for creating the occasion of sin (or crime) as the woman who exposes herself in the extreme.
Now both those examples are extreme in themselves, but Catholic Christian women who dress like they’re advertising their body parts MUST accept responsibility for causing temptation, even if NO ONE behaves criminally in response. The robbery and rape outcomes are relatively rare in comparison to the untold occasions in which men succumb to sin via surrendering to lustful thoughts and even through solitary sin (if you know what I mean). I say to you that in that situation the woman whose actions or dress created such temptation for a man has much to answer for before Jesus, even if not one word or gesture passes between them.
You need to cast away entirely the lens of feminism through which you perceive your Catholic faith, because the two are completely incompatible.
We are all of us getting older, brother. It may be that in a few years you will be less than proud of the thoughts you have expressed here.
An extreme need to be right, even when the other person isn’t necessarily wrong. That’s your “thing”, isn’t it?
It’s hard to take you seriously when you’re being so emotional. Just calm down. Do you need some chocolate or something?
You are so wrong on so many counts that I don’t know where to begin. Maybe we Catholic women should start a petition that all men grow beards because the sight of a man’s naked cheek could lead to distracted and lustful longings. I’m sure in your list (your long list) of do’s and don’ts there is a correct height for skirt length and collar depth for we weak and wayward women. You need to speak to some sensible men, Really, some sane and sensible Christian men. My handsome husband is one of them. He gets furious when one of his sex starts suggesting that women play a role in his state of sin. His words “that puts us men on the level of beasts, unable to control our own thoughts! Victims to our base instincts.” Like him, I prefer to think better of my menfolk. I hold them to greater standards. Should a woman run past them naked, they know what and where they should direct their thoughts. And you need to “cast away entirely the lens” through which you view feminism. A dictionary might help.
Just my observations, for what they’re worth: whenever the term feminism is invoked (whether “radical,” “New,” “Catholic,” etc.) it has always meant to some extent the enabling of women to play the righteous victim or martyr without actually having been a victim or martyr and men to play the hero without having done anything heroic.
“Always”? Really?
Yes – really. Why is everyone saying “really” so much these days?
I favour “Seriously?”, and I disagree with your observation. I have 9 beautiful but cheeky brothers, an “old school” father and 11 “old school” uncles. Umpteen hundred cheeky male cousins. I think I deserve the same pay for the same work, the same right to vote and the same respect as a human being. I am neither victim nor martyr. But when one of my favourite uncles tells me that “things started going wrong when they gave women the vote”, I’m not going to demurely agree with him.(And I won’t be told to wear skirts and dresses to be more feminine). I call myself a Feminist. I’m also a Masculinist. I love all these amazing men in my life and I won’t allow anybody to speak ill of men in general. So, in short, Bucky Inky, your “Always” is your opinion and not fact.
Hi Maryanne, you’re a masculinist? I admit I don’t know what that means. Does that mean that you demonstrate against such things as the >90% workplace fatality ratio that men face? Or that Boko Haram, though they kidnaps girls into slavery if they don’t just tell them to go home, burns alive or slits the throats of boys? Is there a #bringbackourboys(fromthedead) hashtag yet?
That’s funny, because most instances I’ve seen the terms “feminist” and “feminism” used has been in the context of women demanding equal pay, to be treated with respect, to be allowed quality education, to be able to speak their minds without being intimidated into silence, to be able to refuse the advances of men without being harassed or killed. That isn’t self-imposed martyrdom. That’s wanting to be treated like a human being.
Everyone faces inequities, and everyone faces injustices, male and female. It’s part of being a human in a fallen world. Yet the very name “feminism” suggests that there is something particularly oppressive about the female human experience, and that injustices a woman faces deserve special attention, and this even though feminists usually state they are interested in making life better for both men and women. At least Maryanne below seems to sense the inconsistency in this and refers to herself as both a feminist and a masculinist. Yet she is about one of three people in my life that I’ve heard use the term masculinist, and even when I type the word the Disqus spellcheck is suggesting that I correct it because it doesn’t recognize it.
I urge you, if you do value justice, to educate yourself about feminism and feminist issues, and the female human experience around the world which, yes, can be especially oppressive. There’s really no other productive way this conversation can go.
Thanks for your response Brooke.
I have taken considerable time to educate myself about feminist issues both in the US and around the world, but perhaps not enough.
How would I know whether I have, in your estimation, educated myself? Will I know when I agree with you, for example, that women have it worse around the world?
You do not have to agree with me, nor do I expect you to. But because you appear to be making strawmen out of what people are discussing here, I can no longer engage with you. I apologize.
I see a rabbit trail, though not a strawman. Either way, you are probably wise to cut it off. Looks as though there are items more fundamental and prior that we would need to get hashed out before we would have a fruitful discussion on the topics that have come up. You pretty much said as much earlier.
Thanks for your time however.
Brooke-explain something to me.
How is it that two men walking down the street holding hands are “shoving their sexuality down my throat” but your religion protesting at heath clinics and telling people what how they “should” behave in order to meet your moral “standards” (and frequently trying to LEGISLATE those “standards” as law) is somehow “minding my own business” and “peacefully practicing my religion”?
I’m glad to see the double standard is alive and well.
I never brought up LGBT-specific issues at all in this post. Personally, who holds hands with who in public doesn’t bother me a bit, and protesting in general isn’t my thing. If you want to have a discussion about abortion and pro-life/pro-choice issues, I’m sure Abby Johnson would be more than happy to oblige on one of her posts; she could probably have a more productive and informative discussion with you than I could. Coming from an Eastern Orthodox background and not a Roman Catholic one, I tend to be a bit out of the loop on social issues and probably view them differently than the way you assume I do.
Funny that you composed an entire original posting yet about a social issue as personified by the dress of a pop TV star on a pop TV show during a pop TV award show yet you claim you are “out of the loop on social issues”.
And do I really need to remind you that YOU wrote the lines about “shoving X down my throat” and “peacefully practicing my religion”?
Do you really want your defense to be that you don’t really understand the subject you posted on?
I meant “social issues” in the context of Roman Catholic social teaching on abortion and gay marriage specifically, which the Eastern Churches have tended to be more reticent and subdued about than the West. I should have specified, and I apologize.
I am sorry to hear that a Catholic calls herself a feminist because abortion, single parenting, divorce, and sexual experimentation go hand-in-hand. You can’t walk away from it.
I urge you to learn about Early Feminism which had better days when I was young and was pro-family. Pioneer Betty Friedan was anti-abortion but the movement was literally hijacked by abortion. I know, I was there. Read this excellent book review just published in the Catholic League’s Catalyst: “How Abortion Became Feminism’s Holy Grail.” The book is by a former “Cosmopolitan” reporter who tells all in her book, Subverted: How I Helped the Sexual Revolution Hijack the Women’s Movement (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2015). Sue Ellen Browder. https://www.catholicleague.org/how-abortion-became-feminisms-holy-grail/